Recently, a few designers alerted me to a shirt that was just released on Hot Topic by the company Goodie Two Sleeves that resembled a shirt that I first made in early 2005, and released that summer as one of my first designs under my company SEIBEI.
I’ve been debating whether to make this a public matter or not - I’ve talked to friends, people in the industry, a lawyer, the heads of Goodie Two Sleeves, and, through proxy, higher-ups at Hot Topic, and I’m still not entirely sure.
Goodie Two Sleeves claims the resemblance is completely unintentional, and though offers were made, none of them included the removal of the shirt, which is all I wanted in the first place. Regardless of how the shirt came to be, its presence on the market hurts us. Since I don’t have the time or the money to waste on a drawn-out legal battle, it seems like there’s nothing I can do.
Anyway, it’s not up to me to say whether this is a copy or not - though there are a number of similar elements, they may have come about independently of one another. What I want you to know, however, is that I was here first. The Sandwich Dinosaur is one of our oldest, best-selling designs, and it’s right at the heart of SEIBEI, so having a similar item being distributed in a retailer that’s in nearly every mall in America really hurts, and could potentially damage my business with the independent boutiques that carry us. SEIBEI has been all I’ve done for the past three years, and it’s been a lot of hard work, a lot of setbacks, and a lot of late nights, so I don’t want to have someone in a Goodie Two Sleeves Awesome Monster shirt see the Sandwich Dinosaur, ever, and think that mine came along second, regardless of the circumstance.
I’ll post additional coverage of the story here as it comes:
Digg the story here
Reddit the story here
Yelp
Fantastic Bonanza
Hide Your Arms
You Thought We Wouldn’t Notice
Nerds Dorks and Geeks
T Addict
Indie Threads
Related posts:
Damn, that sucks man. If only I wouldn’t have wasted my college education and had pursued law school more seriously.
The similarities just seem too uncanny to be completely unintentional, and taking a quick flip through their other shirts, I noticed a couple that had more than a few similarities to some other designs I’ve seen out on the Internets (not just their poorly executed BustedTees type stuff, but I know I’ve seen a waterguns rip off of the Threadless ‘ray-gun’ tee before).
Anyways, good luck in however this thing resolves itself. If you think of anything to do that might help, know that you’ve got a ton of supportive folks (both from real life and the web) that have got your back.
[...] read the full article Share This General [...]
[...] can read David’s take on the situation. And if you do buy something from SEIBEI, you can use coupon code fanblog for 15% off. Share This [...]
This is terrible…Johnny Cupcakes recently posted something similar where his design that was launched in 2005 is now being sold ( well something very very similar) is being sold by Billabong.
I agree with Barry the similarities are too uncanny to be unintentional. I will definitely get the word out there because this is ridiculous!!!
They’re not even that cool.
Maybe take this as a challenge to be better and more progressive? Sincerest form of flattery and all that.
Otherwise, see if you can get a lawyer to take it on a contingency basis. You won’t be out anything, they’ll take a cut. Plus, Hot Topic has deep pockets.
I’d say its pretty obvious they ripped you off. Big companies have all the money in the world and yet they can’t hire designers that have original ideas of their own. Since they have teams of lawyers and tons of money, I suggest you just let the blog world know about it and hopefully HT will get tired of the bad press and remove the shirt.
My job is related to brand management. You were obviously ripped off. Sue them, and when you win use the settlement to recoup your legal fees. Or get one of those awesome lawyers who doesn’t charge you unless, nay, until you win.
For anyone who wants to contact Hot Topic:
http://community.hottopic.com/customerservice/talktous.asp
or 1-626-839-4681 (customer service)
You will want to reference the product number: SKU# 243424 (design by Goodie Two Sleeves)
You can digg David’s blog entry to help spread the word: http://digg.com/design/Hot_Topic_Inspired_by_Independent_Designer
Sorry that this happened to you, David. I can’t believe that they ripped you off and so blatantly. I posted this to Yelp to get support from the Boston community. Good luck.
http://www.yelp.com/topic/boston-independent-t-shirt-designer-seibei-ripped-off-by-hot-topic
I posted to my blog about this, for additional publicity: http://biancajames.blogspot.com/2008/01/trouble-brewing.html
I highly reccomend you write up a press release and send it to local news outlets, esp. free weeklies and magazines. I would cover it for the reader if it had more of a chicago angle.
My boy was here first, and no one is going to walk around with that stinking knock off dino calling the hungry dino an imititation in my town. When I see that shirt, I’ll make it look like the Zombie shirt because there’ll be blood and gore all over it when I’m finished.
Down with the man. Seibei rocks my world.
Tristan
My little sister wrote me:
The Sandwich shirt is so much better than that other one!
Love,
Steph
I went to goodie two sleeves, and that shirt isn’t there… maybe they decided to stop selling it??
you’re right that sucks.
they only want to beat you or eat you so dont bother caring about them.
if the sammich shirt is 3 years old and some market pirates get to close to your house,
then move on make a newer better design. people who care know the difference.
you will waste your time and soul on any litigation.
bottom line: when the “pinks” catch on to whats fly,
the “slacks” step away into the next world. see you. peace.
Dude, this SUCKS.
These crooks STOLE YOUR WORK.
David, you HAVE to pursue this. If you don’t protect your copyright, you lose it. Surely you can find a lawyer who will work for a percentage of the money you will SURELY win from these crooks.
David, take ‘em on–pretend Hot Topic/Goodie Two Sleeves are the Persians and you are Leonidas. Take a page outta 300.
I’ve written the Daily Press (I know, small potatoes, but hey, it’s home), and I’ve written Hot Topics, and I’m gonna tell all my online friends and link to your site.
If there’s ANYTHING I can do to help, just ask.
Your Sammich Shirt is the greatest Tee I have–and I have some wonderful ones.
really? are you going to pursue some lame jokers in a lame t-shirt, just carefully diferent enough to make your case very difficult. DONT FOLLOW LAME!
discuss, spread the word, complain, let people know what the lowdown is… good.
but dont waste any more creative energy trying to beat a bunch of losers with no talent.
you already said you dont want money. dont you know they cant catch your future? they can only follow… and get there late.
…see now we have a social indicator:
if i see you wearing a h.t. dino tshirt, then i know i have no business talking to or about you.
if i see you wearing a sammich tshirt, then i get to smile and say hi.
Just by looking at the designs I wouldn’t say rip-off, but given that a lot of their other shirts are unoriginal, it seems a probable theft.
Yeah, I agree with “Ed” I wouldn’t bring the law into this. Unless that law is Chuck Norris.
However, I will continue to get the word out about this and hopefully a few supporters like these fine people will help you fight the Not-So-Hot-Topics of this world.
I must agree, the similarities are uncanny. However, I wouldn’t jump right down Hot Topic’s throat about this. They don’t “hire designers” to do shirts for them. They shop for vendors that have lines that would fit in with their store. They probably have no clue that a similar design even existed…so suing them is going to get nowhere unfortunately. I know because they sold a complete rip off of one of my designs a couple of years ago. I contacted them via their website and got a response within 2 hours. They had no idea my site existed and apologized for the mix-up. We then struck up a conversation about my shirts and I ended up selling to them on quite a few occasions…in the end it worked out pretty well. They are good to deal with so it’s worth at least contacting them about it, but not going after them for it.
Rip-offs are going to happen…and it sucks worse when it’s on this scale because I know what you mean, you want people to know you were the first. But I would go right to Goodie Two Shoes with this and try and deal with them as to why they would have taken the design to Hot Topic in the first place when it’s origin was in question.
oh and just in case oh and just in case you dont like all that junk i blabbered above,
here is the other side of the fence. they are exactly what the claim to be and if you call them they will answer your questions and possibly even break out the guns.
Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts of Massachusetts, Inc.
go here:
http://www.vlama.org/
Hey man, Shannon’s ex-roommate told me what was going on so I posted on my law blog for all the eager law students to get in on this. It’s at overheardinlawschool.blogspot.com currently and I’ll let you know if I get any good responses. In the meantime, I’m going to look up some copyright law myself (I have a JD).
I took entertainment law last semester and this is my NON-professional opinion:
Your first action should be a section 301 preemption claim. This means that the federal copyright law will be in question in FEDERAL court, rather than a state court. It looks like you want to protect the dinosaur character. Characters can be protected by showing:
1. was the character, as originally conceived and developed, sufficiently developed for commercial copyright protection.
2. if so, did the alleged infringer copy such development and not merely a broader and more abstract outline?
is the dinosaur trademarked? If so you can claim a violation of the Lanham act which requires a false designation and a likelihood of confusion.
That’s a start, hope it helps.
Hi hon, sorry to hear about this annoyance. You shouldn’t let them get away with what they’re doing. I was telling Tristan that you really need to register for your copyright. Then think about possible legal action. I know you can’t afford an attorney, but you have plenty of friends in law school. Maybe a professor would be willing to take the case pro bono, or allow students to take on the case as an independent study. I would contact IP professors locally or talk to your awesome friends in law school. In addition, schools may have special litigation clinics where law students can sign up to litigate your case. Check it out, sometimes there are certain requirements (like being poor) but it could be a good option for you.
Below I copied some information from the US Trademark and Patent office. You have a copyright claim, but you have to register the copyright before you bring an infringement action against someone.
Don’t give up, there are options!! And don’t delay on registering for the copyright.
How can I secure a copyright?
This is a frequently misunderstood topic because many people believe that you must register your work before you can claim copyright. However, no publication, registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is “created” when it is fixed in a “copy or a phonorecord for the first time.” For example, a song can be fixed in sheet music or on a CD, or both. Although registration with the Copyright Office is not required to secure protection, it is highly recommended for the following reasons:
* Registration establishes a public record of the copyright claim.
* Registration is necessary before an infringement suit may be filed in court (for works of U. S. origin).
* If made before or within 5 years of publication, registration establishes prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate.
* If registration is made within 3 months after publication of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney’s fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.
* Registration allows the owner of the copyright to record the registration with the U. S. Customs Service for protection against the importation of infringing copies.
FUCKING RIP OFF ARTISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S. why the hell do big organizations need to steal good designers things…it upsets me oh so much because if they cant get talent then thats just sad. The resemblance on both shirts are totally alike. but david i feel like you went in a time machine went into the future stole the idea from them then got back to the past and let yourself get to stardom?? J.K.!!!! but keep it real because obviously these higher up people cant…
I seriously doubt you could drum up a copyright case unless the designer admitted to it. The similarity is in a cartoon dinosaur with a speech bubble, but I can’t imagine that hasn’t been drawn before, even if it wasn’t put on a t-shirt before (the t-shirt doesn’t help a copyright case). I’m pretty sure I’ve seen similar stuff on greeting cards. Regardless of whether they copied it, you couldn’t prove it.
And this case ( http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-150.ZO.html ) seems to preclude a trademark/trade dress claim, though I haven’t seen pictures of the designs in that case.
Your design looks a lot better though, so perhaps it won’t hurt your sales too much.
-law student specializing in IP
[...] Goodie Two Sleeves “Inspired by” SEIBEI (read our take): indie t-shirt designer David Murray receives the highest form of flattery: imitation! Too bad this dig on his Sandwich Dinosaur could be bad for business… (use coupon code fanblog for 15% off at SEIBEI) [...]
[...] Goodie Two Sleeves: here [warning: Fash site with some sound] Original post on the Seibei blog: here Fantastic Bonanza’s take: here [note: slightly less restrained than mine] Tags » [...]
Unfortunately, there’s nothing you can really do.
Copyright Law -
1) You need a valid copyright on the design (less than $50, get from the US Copyright people)
2) Prove they copied you.
Proving they copied is really fact-intensive. You prove they copied by proving that they had access to your design (either they actually saw it OR your design was accessible enough that they could have seen it) AND that the two are “substantially similar.”
Both have a dinosaur talking, but the dinos have different shapes, colors, etc. They both say different things.
Also, in general, ideas are not copyrightable. So the idea that a dino would have something to say and that he’d say it in a bubble cannot be copyrighted. The stuff that CAN be copyrighted is the expression of that idea. So, the shape, type of dino, colors, pose, details. And what he says (maybe, but not necessarily).
You don’t have much of a case. Sorry.
Sorry to saw this happens all of the time, intentionally or not.
And to the person who posted about Billabong ripping off J. Cupcakes, I know a designer who has been harassed by Cupcakes’ legal team to have her remove a similar design that she had posted years prior to theirs…so its like thieves taking from thieves…
[...] Topic started selling a shirt that looked very similar to a design created by Seibei. After Seibei pointed this out on their blog, other blogs picked up on the story and defended Seibei. Most seemed angry at what [...]
I am so glad you said something about this to everyone! I came across this rip-off shirt at the mall last week and I was completely appalled!!! I couldn’t believe my eyes. I instantly recognized it as a rip-off of the shirt I had bought (from you) from the Renegade Fair in Brooklyn! I hope you do fight, you are fighting for all independent designers not just yourself. I can’t believe there are so many dirt bags in the world who do this kind of shit, I see it everyday. Have you seen this site- http://youthoughtwewouldntnotice.com/blog3/ . In fact the latest post on that site is about Hot Topic as well! I guess the rip-off artists just love working with them. I think someone should post this instance on that site if they haven’t already!
That’s messed up. And that site marilyn mentioned (http://youthoughtwewouldntnotice.com/blog3/) is awesome btw.
I “stumbled upon” this and then continued stumbling and found this: http://bigstonehead.net/greendino/
[...] you want to read more, you can check out Davids’ blog over at http://www.seibei.com/blog/?p=341. There’s a link to contact Hot Topic in the replies over there. Oh, and also, be sure to [...]